Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:07):
Welcome to the AIP Summit Podcast, your go- to resource for taking control of your autoimmune health presented by AIP Certified Coaches. Hi, I'm Marie-Noelle Marquis.
Jaime Hartman (00:17):
And I'm Jaime Hartman, and we're here to equip you with the tools, knowledge, and support you need to effectively use the autoimmune protocol.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:25):
And today we're talking with Alissa Klein about her healing story and also how her clients use wearable technology to optimize their autoimmune wellness. Okay, Alissa, thank you so much for being here today.
Alissa Klein (00:42):
Oh, thank you both so much for having me.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:45):
So to start our conversation today, can you tell us a little bit about your own health journey, how you personally use AIP?
Alissa Klein (00:54):
Absolutely. So in my early 20s, I was diagnosed with my first autoimmune disease, which was not labeled as such. And so I was unaware that I actually had an autoimmune disease. It was more or less described to me as a circulatory condition and was really the main recommendation was that I just keep my hands and feet warm through the cold months of the year and that once I get through that, then I should be okay until the next cold spurt comes around. And so I went about my life for the next decade just thinking that I had a circulatory condition, but not really understanding and knowing the impact that it was having on my whole body. And over the next those 10 years, that decade, I progressively got more sick. And this wasn't just getting colds and flus and illnesses that float around. It was actually getting sick from the inside out.
(02:00):
I started developing things like carpal tunnel syndrome. I was noticing that even though I felt relatively "healthy," that my joints were getting really stiff. I started spraining my arms and legs much easier than what you would think a 20-something person would. And so there were these signs that started popping up that were indicating to me that something internally really was not right. It was not until I was in my late 20s that I realized that I actually had other autoimmune diseases. And so as these started to surface and I started to get actual autoimmune diagnoses, then I started digging quite a bit because the term was new to me, the concept was new to me. I saw a really brilliant integrative physician locally where I live, and she started to point me in the right direction, and then she actually moved. And so when I was just starting to learn about autoimmunity and what I could do to help support myself, I didn't have that provider there to give me that guidance anymore.
(03:23):
And so I took it upon myself to try to figure out what I could do, and it became essentially my full-time job to figure it out. I was studying, I was reading, I was watching videos, I was doing anything and everything that I could to understand the concept of autoimmunity, and then to understand what steps I would be able to take on my own to help start to heal my body. And so I ran across Dr. Isabella Wentz's Hashimoto's protocol, and I thought, okay, this sounds really promising. And simultaneously I ran across AIP and I thought, okay, these are nutritional protocols that seem to be aligning, and so there has to be something to it. And I decided nothing is going to benefit me more than at least making an attempt at this. It's not going to do any harm. And so I planned it all out.
(04:29):
I picked a very specific day. I said, "On this day, I am going to radically change my lifestyle." And I did. I changed everything. I changed the way that I eat. I changed how I prioritize sleep. I changed the way that I allowed life stressors to impact my body. I made a much more conscious effort to move my body, and all of those things compounded into what would be the greatest gift that I have ever received, which is the ability to heal and to feel better. Within a matter of just a couple of weeks, all of my symptoms that were nearly debilitating at that time were starting to subside in reverse. Clinically, after three months, my antibodies, my autoimmune antibodies had dropped by 50% in just 12 weeks. And so at that point I realized, okay, this is obviously really amazing, but it can't be kept a secret.
(05:36):
I actually remember saying those words, I think to my husband, I said, "This can't be kept a secret. I need to figure out what I can do to help other people know that healing is possible from an autoimmune standpoint." And so I ended up leaving a job that I enjoyed, but at the time was quite a bit for my body to handle, and I was unemployed for three months. And during that time is when I found health coaching. And with health coaching, I realized that it would give me the opportunity to share information, which had become my main goal, to share information about autoimmunity and to become accredited professional who would be able to actually see clients and be able to support them either one-on-one, group setting, whatever it might be. I actually knew that I wanted to be an AIP Certified Coach before I even got my health coaching credentialing.
(06:39):
And so I was eagerly awaiting during the time of my coaching certification till I could apply to be an AIP Certified Coach. And so all of that happened within what felt like a relatively short span of time. And I came out on the other side knowing that I was ready to support individuals from both a professional standpoint, but also a personal perspective as well. And knowing that it felt really important to me to show up for clients, listening to their stories, knowing that it had taken so long for my diagnoses to take place over a decade to finally understand what was going on and to see quite a few different medical doctors and professionals. And the most important thing I knew that people probably would want is for somebody to just listen and to hear them and to not feel like what they're experiencing is either being dismissed or it can't be calculated medically and that it's just feeling like individual and independent symptoms that are not correlated, which actually is not, ends up being the truth for autoimmunity.
(07:59):
Everything is linked and correlated together in the body. And so that's really where I got my start.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (08:05):
Thank you so much for sharing that. And I love that you said that you were already looking at becoming an AIP Certified Coach. Before we move on to the next section, Alissa, what does your practice look like today?
Alissa Klein (08:17):
Yes. So as a certified health coach, AIP Certified Coach and a national board certified health coach, I support individuals at a company called And Health. What we do is we support patients with chronic illnesses, specifically autoimmune conditions through an integrative care model. And so we focus on the combination of lifestyle support with medication management to really give individuals access to specialty care that they need and that they deserve while they are trying to explore like so many of us are, what does this condition mean? What does the diagnosis even reveal for me? And knowing that some individuals have been diagnosed for decades at sometimes before we even meet them, and that what we're able to offer to them is access to specialty care that gives them the chance to actually heal. And so I work as a health coach supporting patients in exploring their personalized and individualized care plans as they are written out by a specialist, whether that's a rheumatologist or a dermatologist or a neurologist.
(09:43):
And so really working on the lifestyle portion of things with patients and giving them an opportunity to see how nutrition and sleep and movement and nervous system support or stress management can really impact their autoimmune disease in a lot of different ways.
Jaime Hartman (10:05):
So we're really excited to talk more with you today about how you do all of that, specifically how you're using data from wearable technology with these patients. Before we get into the specifics of what exactly you do, would you mind giving our listeners an overview of the different kinds of devices a person with an autoimmune disease might be using?
Alissa Klein (10:25):
Sure. There are a lot of different types of wearable devices. There are smartwatches that can help track movement, sleep, heart rate, things like that. There are more fitness tracker type wearables that are the Fitbits and WootBands and things like that, that are supportive for step counting, sleep, recovery. There's continuous glucose monitors, of course, that help individuals track glucose levels based on what they're intaking and how their body responds to various foods and beverages and things like that. And then there's more specifically the Aura Ring, which is what I primarily use for myself and to support patients with. And I will say that I have no affiliation with or sponsorship with any of these wearable companies. These are just the ones that I have explored personally and professionally, and the ones that we have found to give us the most information and details, and I'm happy to share a little bit more about that as well.
Jaime Hartman (11:41):
Yeah. And would you say generally, are there differences in how a person with an autoimmune disease is going to be using their data from devices such as these as compared to the generally healthy population?
Alissa Klein (11:53):
Yes, certainly. So when we typically think of these wearable devices just from the general public, individuals may get these so that they can really keep track of how many steps they're taking in a day or what their general activity level is or how much sleep they get at night. But when you look at these, the data through a different perspective focusing on autoimmunity, it's a little bit more about, I'll say the interplay of the metrics than it is just of the metrics themselves independently. And so what I mean by that is we can really start to explore how different lifestyle habits impact how our body recovers, how it performs, and then even go a layer deeper and take a look at how those specific lifestyle factors may impact two different metrics simultaneously. And the metrics are really, really important to consider because a lot of times they reveal information about our bodies that we can't quite see or sense or pick up on very naturally.
(13:20):
And so they start to give us a glimpse of what's actually happening inside and rather than just giving us an idea of how much time we slept in a night, but we want to know about the quality of the sleep that we're getting at night and how that quality of sleep is being impacted by everything that's happening around us and to us.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (13:43):
That's awesome. So we can see that clearly wearable technology can offer a lot of potential positives for people with autoimmune disease. Are there any downsides or potential pitfalls that our listeners should take into consideration if they're ...
Alissa Klein (13:58):
I would say that there are primarily two considerations that individuals should keep in mind as they're considering using or if they are actively using wearable devices and analyzing the data, especially from an autoimmune lens. The first is that we want to try to avoid as much as we can becoming hyper-fixated on the specific scores that are coming through. The scores themselves give us just a general snapshot in time of what our body might be experiencing, but the true opportunity lies beneath that. It's not just a number that appears for the quality of your sleep or the anticipated readiness of your body for the day. And so when we become hyper-fixated on the scores, what can happen sometimes is that individuals almost get into a competition with themselves for trying to just beat their personal bests. But when we do that, we miss the mark of truly understanding the impact of what is happening with our bodies.
(15:16):
And so it's great to have the scores as a guideline or the numbers, but becoming hyper-fixated on those can be problematic. The second point is that the general information that's coming to us and the data from these wearable devices can be helpful. However, what a lot of them don't take into account is mental and emotional wellbeing and the impact of mental and emotional health on our bodies and especially on autoimmune disease. And so we want to keep in mind that this isn't just about using data to see how many steps we get in a day because we want to move our bodies. It's really looking at the impact of these lifestyle decisions to understand how they are playing into how our bodies generally are feeling.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (16:23):
Fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing that. I'd love to talk about specifics. So you told us that you use the oral ring data in your work with clients. What does it look like? What are the specific, I guess, benefits that does that data offer?
Alissa Klein (16:38):
This is actually something that I am always very, very excited to talk about and share with individuals because what we are doing at Andhealth is giving autoimmune patients the opportunity to pull back another layer of that autoimmune journey or sort of think about it like an onion. And we're digging that layer deeper to help them understand how everything that's happening in their life is impacting them personally. We really take a very individualized and personalized and customized approach and data from the wearable devices, and we specifically use Aura Rings, give us the opportunity to help patients understand what's really happening on that deeper layer. So we use the data to then be able to uncover personal triggers and then modify care plans and treatment plans for each independent or individual patient based on what is coming out of a lot of the data. Some of the most notable metrics that we have found to be most important for autoimmunity are heart rate variability or HRV, body temperature, and resting heart rate.
(18:17):
With HRV, it is linked to our autonomic nervous system. And so this gives us data about how our body is engaging in either the sympathetic fight or flight or the parasympathetic rest and digest parts of our nervous system. Higher HRV tends to be associated with more general fitness, good fitness, good recovery. Recovery is the key here. And then lower HRV typically means that our bodies are engaged in fight or flight, the sympathetic nervous system a little bit more, that our bodies are overtraining. We have an illness on the horizon or something like that. HRV is very personal. The number is personal. There's a lot of factors that we cannot control that impact HRV, which include our genetics, our age, hormone cycles, mental and emotional health, sometimes illnesses, things like that. But there are also factors that we do have a little bit more control over, and these are things, lifestyle type things, sleep, environmental factors that maybe we can make a little bit of some adjustments or things like that.
(19:41):
And so HRV becomes one of the most notable metrics for getting a glimpse into how our bodies are performing, but specifically when we're looking at it from an autoimmune lens. For body temperature, rises in body temperature from our personal baseline can indicate that our body's feeling challenged. And so this is typically measured at night because there's a lot of factors during the day that can impact our body temperature, what we're eating and drinking and how we're moving our bodies and exercising and environmental factors and all of that stuff. And so when we see, especially a combination change of HRV and body temperature, it's starting to give us some really good clues. Then you have the third, which is your resting heart rate, which plays into this as well. In the long term, a lower resting heart rate is generally a sign of relatively good cardiovascular health and physical fitness and recovery.
(20:48):
Again, you hear recovery continuing to come up. It is a theme. And in the short term, there are some lifestyle habits or behaviors that can impact our resting heart rate, stress, notably eating patterns, exercise patterns and things like that. And so what we have found and what studies have found is that a combination of these three things can actually give us signals to not only how the body is performing and recovering, but also is there an autoimmune flare on the horizon? And so this is what we use to determine how we can best support patients. I'll give you an example here and tell you a story that makes this all worthwhile. But a couple of years ago, we were supporting a patient and happened and as part of the coaching role, we do take responsibility for making sure that we're checking in on patient's data as it's coming through and syncing where we can see it.
(22:04):
And I noticed that a patient's heart rate variability had dropped drastically. And when I say drop, if you think about a rollercoaster and what that looks like, that was how fast HRV had dropped. It literally looked like a downward rollercoaster.
(22:30):
Her body temperature had increased by more than a degree, and her resting heart rate was starting to speed up. And that to me signaled that either the individual was starting to get sick with an acute illness or she was entering a flare. And so that gave me the opportunity to reach out to her and I said, "Hey, this is what your data is showing, and I'm just checking in to see if you're doing okay." And she replied and she said, "I'm actually not. I'm not feeling well. This is what I'm experiencing." And I said, "Okay, would you like to schedule a visit with your medical provider?" And she agreed. And so we got her in, we scheduled a visit. The medical provider was talking to her and did an assessment and said, "I think you're actually entering a flare." And so at that point, we were able to make some immediate adjustments to the patient's care plan.
(23:44):
The provider communicated back to me what they thought would be most beneficial for the patient at that time. I went through it with the patient. She said, "Based on how I'm feeling, this is what I think I'm capable of doing right now." And we were able to help offer support for that flare before it got too far progressed. And so this is just an example of a way that we would use the data, I would say in the most optimal way, but sometimes it's just as easy as creating little habits with patients that can help to support better quality sleep. Taking a look at what the environment, their sleep environment is like, taking a look at what the data is showing us, how their body responds to stress during the day. Are they spending most of the day in a stressed or an engaged state?
(24:42):
Is there opportunity for periods of rest? Can we incorporate mindful moments and then exploring the habits that will best support each individual patient based on what their body is signaling that it needs and what we think might be clinically relevant for them as well.
(25:07):
So oftentimes as we are exploring some of these data points, exploring new habits, we recognize that it can be a little bit tricky to keep track of what might actually be impacting how our body is feeling because we engage in so many different types of activities throughout the day. And this is why we lean heavily on tags. And tags give us an opportunity to pinpoint or to remind ourselves, on this particular day, this is what I experienced. And this could be a tag that indicates I had an acupuncture appointment this day, or I started a new medication this day, or I engaged in a specific type of movement this day, and maybe it was something different. So maybe you usually do yoga and maybe you decided to try a HIT class or something. And so what it does is when we go back in time to look at trends in the data, it allows us to understand what an individual's body experienced on that day and take into account if maybe any of those things might be impacting how the body is performing and how the body is recovering.
(26:30):
And again, this is all related to autoimmunity specifically. And so we want to be really mindful of the type of exercises that we're engaging in and that our bodies can feel different day to day. And that yesterday I felt like I had a ton of energy and today I feel incredibly depleted. And so because autoimmunity is incredibly complex and because every day doesn't look the same for all of us, we really rely on these tags to help us analyze the trends and see if there's anything that's consistently coming up. Maybe it's like, I noticed that every night that I eat after eight o'clock, my heart rate variability has dropped significantly, and then we notice that trend and we're able to make adjustments with the patient and things like that. The other thing to consider, I mentioned trends a couple times is that there is a difference between a data point that's really analyzing how someone feels at a specific point in time and the trend that is coming from those data points.
(27:36):
And so one change in a data point, maybe a change in HRV one day may not really be that significant. It could just be something that we ate or something that we did that impacted our bodies a little bit, but what we really want to look at are the trends over time because it's the compounding of these things that end up signaling to our bodies either, "Hey, I need a little bit of help," or, "Hey, I'm doing relatively well right now." And so that's the same for stress. Acute stress is not terribly problematic, but chronic stress is problematic. And so we want to really look at, and what we do is analyze the trends over time so that we can really help patients start to understand the things that they may be experiencing consistently that are really impacting their bodies more than just for a few hours or a day here or a day there.
Jaime Hartman (28:46):
Before we transition to our final portion of our conversation, I thought it would be interesting to just share some of our personal experiences using various wearable technology. Marie-Noel, I know that you've recently had the opportunity to use a continuous glucose monitor. What has that experience been like for you?
Marie-Noelle Marquis (29:03):
Yes, I have, and I love it. I use it as a supportive tool to help balance my blood sugar. I think one thing that I want people to understand is we're not perfect. It's not because we host this podcast that we never experience any setbacks or myself anyway. Jaimie, you might be perfect, fall off the AIP wagon, whatever. I'm certainly guilty of putting myself in unhealthy situations. I skip on sleep. I overload my life with stress. I do well when it comes to not eating food that trigger me, but I also, I am, again, guilty of quote unquote skipping meals when the days get too busy. So all of those are things that are bad habits. They have obviously a negative impact on my blood sugar. I have Hashimoto's thyroiditis. It definitely has, when my blood sugar's off, that can also trigger a flare. I But I think when you're busy, it's easy for me anyway, to ignore it and just push through.
(30:07):
It's like, "Oh yeah, I know. I know. I know I should. I should. I should, should." So for me, using the continuous glucose monitor allows me to see that, again, data of what is happening to my body, the patterns that lead to blood sugar crashes and then how I can fix it. So I don't wear it all the time, but once in a while it's almost like a reset or like, "Whoa, I need to refocus here." Then I do. And I'll spend the first few days noticing the patterns. And again, for me, it's really the crashes. I was like, I'll start noticing if I've been in this bad habit of not eating, then when I'm like, "Oh, I'm going to be good now. I'm going to start eating regular meals." And then my blood sugar will crash drastically half an hour after every meal or I'll wake up multiple times at night and then see that, oh yep, yep, my blood sugar was crashing.
(30:54):
So using all of that, I'll spend the first few days noticing those patterns and then I can actively work at fixing them and be like, "Oh, okay, yes." And I know by now what I need to do to fix it, but again, having that data in front of me to be like, "Oh yeah, you know what? If I do eat proteins within two hours of waking up, amazing. My blood sugar doesn't crash every hour or so. " And if I'm not addressing it and I decide I want to try pushing through, there's a very, very loud disturbing notification that buzzes on my phone that makes it that everybody's like, "What's going on? " I'm like, "Okay, okay. I got to pay attention." So for me, I think it's just a really simple, but it's a really powerful tool. It puts that power quote unquote into the patient's hands.
(31:43):
So I really like using it. Yeah. Jaime, what about you?
Jaime Hartman (31:49):
Yeah. Well, I currently use an Apple watch that serves as my running watch, and I do also pay attention to the sleep data. And for me, mostly at this point, it's just to keep me honest about sticking to my bedtime, honestly. Alissa talked before about not getting too fixated on that score, but I'm at a stage right now where that score is really helpful because if I know if I go to bed on my bedtime, I'm going to get that high score and I want that. So it's been helpful for a habit reinforcement perspective. I used to have a whoop, which tracks activity and sleep and provides a recovery score every morning. And I believe that's an algorithm that was primarily based on heart rate variability. And I did feel like for quite a while that gave me some really valuable information about fatigue and recovery and if my symptoms were creeping up that I wasn't noticing.
(32:38):
But I think I had a point where I started to focus too much on that and I was missing some of the actual physical symptoms that I would've ordinarily been more in tune with. I think our listeners know I have Crohn's disease, and so it's an autoimmune disease that has some pretty obvious symptoms, unlike I think some of the others probably that Alissa works with in her practice. And so I found that I got to this point where I weighed the recovery score data more than what I was actually seeing in my body. And I ultimately decided that it took me a while to figure this out, but that it was time for me to just move on from trying to find it in the data when I actually could see it in my own body. So it's really interesting how this can evolve over time and how you use these things.
(33:30):
And then the sleep data, I think that with the Apple Watch, it doesn't provide a lot of the really useful information that I know you get from an Aura ring or that I got when I had the Whoop. But again, like I said at the beginning, at this point, I know my sleep is really good. And so what's helpful for me is just that positive reinforcement. Yeah. So Alissa, we know that you of course use an Aura Ring. What does that look like for you personally today? And have you used any other wearable devices over the years?
Alissa Klein (34:00):
I have used other wearable devices. I have tried a CGM a continuous glucose monitor. I have worn a Fitbit. I have worn an Apple Watch. I have found the most information come through the Aura Ring for me personally though, and this can look different for different people. What I have found mostly has been incredibly helpful in understanding how my body responds to stress. And what came out of the data was that I didn't realize that my body feels stressed just when I'm busy. Even if I don't feel stressed, stress, we typically have this perception of overwhelm and maybe frustration. It feels like stress is notable and we all would recognize it when we see it, but the data was telling me differently. And even though I wouldn't have cognitively said that I was stressed, my data was showing that I was constantly in this stressed and engaged state just from being busy.
(35:13):
And so it gave me an opportunity to step back and to think, okay, how can I best support myself knowing that even when I don't feel stressed, but I'm just going from one thing to the next to the next to the next, that it's impactful. And so that's where I primarily land most of these days. Sleep's a little iffy. I take it with a grain of salt because I have a toddler and I have an infant, and so the numbers don't really tell me anything I don't already know is happening, but it's the impact of the stress and the busyness that really has been most eye-opening.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (35:57):
Alissa, we always like to ask our fellow AIP Certified Coaches to share some of their signature coaching advice with the podcast listeners. So you've said to us at one point that you tend to advocate often for your clients to never stop asking why. So can you elaborate on that and why you are always encouraging them to keep advocating for themselves?
Alissa Klein (36:19):
Autoimmune diseases are complex. They are not a single layer. Oftentimes it takes years and multiple medical providers until we finally get a diagnosis. Once we do, we just are starting to learn and understand what is happening with our bodies. And if we think about autoimmunity as an onion, every time that we think that we understand, we should still ask why. And why I say that is because if I would have originally received a diagnosis of Hashimoto's, but not asked why or what does it mean, I may have never gotten to the point where I am now, where I have so many incredible tools and knowledge to be able to support myself. And it's not just because I've chosen this line of work, this is something that is possible for any person who experiences autoimmune disease. And so if we start to notice, okay, this is something that may impact my body.
(37:39):
If you ask why, it helps you get that layer deeper. And so then if you get that layer deeper and you start to understand that and you ask why again, it starts to lead you to the root causes because oftentimes there's many more than one. And so once we can get to the root causes, we can start addressing the things that really are going to matter the most and be the most impactful in our healing journeys.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (38:10):
Finally, can you give us one or two practical and actionable tips that a listener can implement today, which will help move them closer to making their own personal vision of their health a reality?
Alissa Klein (38:22):
Sure. So the first, let's say, is a mindset approach, and that is just knowing that we all possess the biggest key to healing, which is simply our willingness to participate in our own healthcare journeys. And if you want to get better, you can get better. Finding the right support sometimes takes a little bit of time, but as long as you have the willingness and the eagerness to participate in your healthcare and to find a way to help yourself feel better, it absolutely is possible. And so I hope everyone, autoimmune disease or general chronic disease, if you're exploring, if they're exploring this right now for themselves, that they can feel a little bit more inspired in knowing that the possibility of healing is on the horizon. The other thing that I would advocate for, and what I oftentimes encourage clients to patients even to advocate for is take a look at your care team.
(39:41):
Who is that comprised of? And this isn't just your medical care team, right? This can be a support team, individuals who surround you. You want to make sure that you have built for yourself a supportive team of individuals who care about you, who advocate for your health, who respect you, who help you feel heard, who are willing to collaborate with you, and collaborate maybe amongst other professionals to ensure that you are getting the best support that you possibly can in your healing journey, knowing that it's not one individual person or one individual treatment or one individual technique that is going to help you feel better. It is the combination of all of the things. And if we can surround ourselves with a care team that really does care about us, the possibilities of healing become infinitely greater.
Jaime Hartman (40:49):
Alissa, if our listeners are inspired by our conversation and want to explore working with you, where should they go to learn more?
Alissa Klein (40:56):
They can go to anhealth, ANDhealth.com, where they can learn a little bit more about how we support individuals with chronic disease and how our integrative approach to specialty care and access to specialty care is uniquely positioned to be able to help people find the best of both worlds and giving them the greatest chance possible of healing.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (41:23):
Thank you so much, Alissa. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and for helping us show our listeners once again, AIP is more than a diet. It is a protocol with multiple branches and there are multiple ways to approach it. Through this podcast, AIP Certified Coaches aim to bring you resources so that you can feel confident about doing AIP on your own, but with the knowledge that you are not doing it alone.
Jaime Hartman (41:45):
We'll be back with another episode in two weeks. You can find the AIP Summit Podcast and your favorite podcast player, so be sure to follow or subscribe to make sure you don't miss a thing.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (41:56):
And if you'd like to leave us a rating and review, it will help others find this podcast where we are committed to helping you use the power of the autoimmune protocol to elevate your wellness, your need to new heights.
Jaime Hartman (42:11):
The AIP Summit Podcast is a Gutsy By Nature production. Content presented is for informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
