Jaime Hartman (00:00:06):
Welcome to the AIP Summit Podcast, your go - to resource for taking control of your autoimmune health presented by AIP Certified Coaches. Hi, I'm Jaime Hartman.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:00:17):
And I'm Marie-Noelle Marquis, and we are here to equip you with the tools, the knowledge, and the support you need to effectively use the autoimmune protocol.
Jaime Hartman (00:00:25):
And today we're bringing you a conversation Marie-Noelle had with a nutritionist who wants you to know that getting stuck on AIP doesn't mean failure, just that there is information you haven't decoded yet. Our guest is Emilie Davis, an AIP Certified Coach and nutritionist based in Salt Lake City who came to this work through her own long health journey with chronic Epstein-Barr and an eventual autoimmune diagnosis. These days, her practice centers on the intersection of gut health and autoimmune disease using functional stool testing to figure out what's actually driving inflammation for each client, not just what's on their plate. She runs her gut restore program through the website wholeessentialsnutrition.com. I was on vacation last week, so Marie-Noelle recorded this one solo. You'll hear them get into why gut health is often the missing piece, even for people doing AIP faithfully, how Emilie uses symptoms as information instead of evidence of failure, and why she's so passionate about food as medicine rather than restriction as the end goal.
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Let's get into it and then I'll be back on the other end to share a reaction and wrap things up.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:01:51):
Hi, Emilie. It's really nice to have you on the podcast, and thank you so much for joining us today.
Emilie Davis (00:01:57):
So good to be here. I'm always a listener, so this is fun to be on the other side of it.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:02:01):
Oh, nice. So today we're really excited to share your work and your expertise with our listeners. I want to jump right in and start with your personal story. So I know that like many of us, you came to nutrition through your own health journey, starting with recurring illness and eventually finding your way to naturopathic and holistic approaches. So can you please walk us through that path and how it eventually led you to AIP?
Emilie Davis (00:02:27):
Yeah, it's a great question. And yes, I do think my story's similar to many others in this alternative holistic whatever kind of health field because of some of my own health struggles. So that is definitely where my path started. And I did. I dealt with recurring illness, specifically chronic Epstein-Barr. I just got flare after flare for recounting this story to someone else, another health provider a couple of days ago. I think it was somewhere in the range of seven to eight years I just kept getting flares. And as anyone who knows, it's a virus. And then a basic understanding is what your immune system is doing is just getting triggered over and over. And so then there were some other immune issues and obviously very severe fatigue. And that is then what triggered an autoimmune disease three years ago. So that is kind of my story in a nutshell, but very early on, I mean, it's interesting.
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I didn't really know about this whole natural medicine, functional medicine, holistic, whatever word we want to use. I didn't really know. And so it was early on in that Epstein-Barr flare process. I had a good doctor, but limited. He's an MD. And so year after year, conventional medicine is like, "It's a virus. No to do.
(00:04:13):
" So there wasn't any answers. And I think it was about three years in that a friend told me about a local naturopathic doctor, and I'm here in Salt Lake City. And so it was a local naturopathic doctor that I got introduced to. And it was through my healing journey that I then knew I wanted to change careers. That's part of the story too. I wanted to become a nutritionist. I already knew as part of that process that I didn't want to be a registered dietician. And so I was looking for a holistic to this approach that worked for me and I saw that it worked for a lot of other people. So that led me to the National University of Natural Medicine and NM in Portland. And it was there that I learned about AIP. So Mickey was a guest lecturer at one of our conferences.
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It might've been one of the Food is Medicine conferences. And so I heard her and was introduced to AIP through my studies in their master's program, used it on myself. And as I then went into practice, I knew that I wanted to be an AIP Certified Coach. I knew that this approach to addressing autoimmune disease through nutrition was going to be important. I don't know. I just had that gut instinct, pun intended. But yeah, that's kind of my journey and how I came to AIP. And I've been in practice about eight years now.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:06:09):
So you've been in practice for eight years, right? As an AIP Certified Coach.
Emilie Davis (00:06:16):
Yeah. It might be seven years as a
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:06:19):
Coach. Seven years as a coach. And so you started as a coach before you had an autoimmune diagnosis yourself? I
Emilie Davis (00:06:26):
Did. I did.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:06:27):
Very interesting. So how was your... Well, I guess the two questions. I'm curious of that experience of like, wait, I'm already working with this and now this is happening to me. How did that... Tell me more about
Emilie Davis (00:06:41):
That. Yeah, it's a good question and interesting to think of it that way and have you pick up on that. But yes, I mean that's my memories in school. I don't know how to explain it. Coming out of school, it was gut health and autoimmune disease. Those were the things that I just felt like were affecting a lot of people. And maybe we could talk about the gut connection with autoimmune disease. I think we're going to get there because that is definitely a big part of my practice. But I just felt really strongly about the approach, the AIP aproach, and this was before good research. I mean, there's good research studies as we know now. So this was 2017 or 18, somewhere in there. Anyway, before AIP has definitely grown
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:07:45):
And
Emilie Davis (00:07:46):
A lot of people know about it certainly more than they did then. But yeah, I knew that I wanted it to be part of my foundation that I was experienced in and trained in. And for those that are listening, I'm the kind of nutritionist. I don't subscribe, if you will, to any one dietary approach. I'm AIP certified, low FODMAP, SCD. Anyway, it depends.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:08:23):
It
Emilie Davis (00:08:23):
Depends on the person. And so I've got a lot of different experience in education and I like to think I use what works for people. So yeah, it is. It's interesting that I... I mean, I was in nutrition school, so yeah I was exposed to it. I learned about it, but yeah, definitely was very interested in becoming a practitioner before it happened to
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:08:52):
Me. Before it
Emilie Davis (00:08:52):
Happened to you. Yeah.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:08:54):
Yeah. How has your understanding, because you mentioned yes, AIP's evolved. So how has your understanding of AIP evolved over that time, especially when you're layering the gut health and the functional testing?
Emilie Davis (00:09:08):
Yeah. So I will say where gut health came in for me with nutrition, that's my foundation. I have a master's degree in nutrition, but then very early on in my practice, I saw gut health as really being a game changer for my clients. And the tie-in I guess with autoimmune disease that I see, and there's lots of good research out there too of this connection, but yeah, certain bacteria and as I was
(00:09:43):
Explaining, describing my own story of started with the chronic viral infection and then this, that, and the other, but your immune system just gets overloaded and overwhelmed sometimes. A lot of times I would say that's the story I hear from people can be early exposure to mold and things like that really set somebody up for a tough time. But for me, it came later in life and that's just what happens with our immune systems. And so that evolution, I guess, with the AIP too and gut health is I saw very early on in my practice if I just, I'm trying to think of how to describe this another way because I don't like the word just, but if I was only focusing on nutrition and I didn't have any other information, I was only able to get people so far.
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That's what I saw. So I brought in functional stool testing and was able to see with autoimmune disease, certain bacteria that are there or really foundational gut stuff like health of someone's gut lining and their good bacteria, what they're doing. And it's not just about overgrowth and bacterial, parasitic, viral, whatever infection. I mean it is, but it's not because then once you heal those, it's these underlying foundational kinds of things like digestion and gut lining and leaky gut and inflammation, all of these other things that frankly, a lot of other practitioners just don't, I guess they don't know, aren't trained. I'm not sure, but coming to hopefully answer your question with AIP is I kind of remember initially when I was training, became certified, I probably thought that it needed to be, what are the words we use now? There's core AIP modified. So I think probably early on I was very strict and thought everyone needed to be that core.
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And I've learned, like I've mentioned, everyone's a little bit different. And so the modified and/or just listening and working with your client and figuring out what works best for them really is what's best for them. And figuring out what some of those potential underlying triggers or causes of inflammation can be.
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It's a game changer. And I know we're going to get to this too, but I have a couple really great examples. One current client with autoimmune encephalitis and she's an example of someone, the core AIP to the T. She is one of those. And she's also a good example of game changer. The diet has to be there for her.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:13:12):
Has
Emilie Davis (00:13:12):
To be. I've worked with her for about eight months now, her and her mom, and it's just amazing to see the diet piece and the other... I mean, I'm part of a team, the other things that are happening too, but if we go far too fast, bringing in too many foods into the reintroduction process, et cetera, doesn't go well for her. She's one of those that's core AIP to a T. And then I've got lots of other examples of people who are kind of the mix. And if I don't, personal experience, but also practitioner doing it this long, if someone doesn't need to be on a strict elimination diet, if we can just be eliminating say three to four foods or food groups versus 10, that's a better place to be. So yeah, definitely evolved. A long answer to your question.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:14:16):
No, no, no, this is great. This is great. Yeah. Since we're diving into your expertise, I love that you talk about that gut health and AIP intersection. I'm a big fan of intersections. I feel like it makes both paths shine, make them stronger. So in your work, then you make the case that gut health is often the missing piece. I have a question. So for someone who's doing AIP, let's say they're doing core faithfully and they still feel stuck, what does your gut health lens offer that the AIP framework alone doesn't?
Emilie Davis (00:14:55):
Yeah, it's such a good question. Yeah, like I was explaining, I learned very quickly that with the gut information specifically, there's other good information that can be really helpful as well. The gut piece often gets missed for, I don't understand why. I mean, we have just such good information about how integral it is to the rest of the body. So yeah, if someone's on a core AIP and they haven't explored some of these other things like gut health, which impacts, I don't think it's an overstatement to say everything else in the body. It can, I've seen it. Then we're missing a big piece of information. And so I mentioned, I mean, sometimes the stool test comes back and there is overgrowth and there are reasons why the gut is contributing to inflammation. And so depending on where listeners are at with their understanding of the immune system in natural holistic functional medicine, we are taught we believe that inflammation is at the heart of all disease.
(00:16:15):
And so it's the same kind of connection with the gut, meaning if someone's got overgrowth of the bad bacteria or they've got candida, which is a yeast overgrowth, or they've got a parasite, something like that, those things are all creating inflammation at the heart of it. We drill it all down, that's what it is. And inflammation is triggering the immune system. And so that's where it's at. If I'm only addressing diet and I'm not looking for, or I have other information about other organs, processes, whatever in the body that might be contributing to inflammation, then I'm missing a big piece.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:17:07):
The GI map functional stool test that you use, in plain terms, what would you say that test would offer that maybe a conventional standard doctor visit wouldn't catch?
Emilie Davis (00:17:20):
Yeah, it's again, a good question. I feel like I explain this a lot to people because yeah, you can get a stool test with your GI or your PCP, primary care physician. The difference usually is they are only testing or looking for say one, maybe two, at most three. They have an idea and they're running a test, a stool sample for a pathogen, for example, or again, whatever it is they think they might want to test for. And that's fine, that can be helpful. The GI map is very different because it's so comprehensive. So the one or two little things that a GI is testing for is included in the GI map and then a hundredfold, maybe not a hundred, but close. Yeah,
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:18:27):
A lot. There's a lot.
Emilie Davis (00:18:29):
I mean, it's four full pages of information. So it's not just, so we call them pathogens. And most listeners would be familiar with things like E. Coli, salmonella, Giardia. Those are all pathogenic, meaning that we know that they create damage to the body and they cause disease and some of them are pretty, what's the word, contagious.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:18:59):
I
Emilie Davis (00:18:59):
Just had someone come up with a certain type of E. Coli and I have to notify the health department, the local health department, because they need to know where did that person pick it up. I mean, they have to trace it and it's public health. So those are some of the, I don't know, bigger kind of things that might be wrong. But then again, as I've described, the GI map gives me, so not just do you have an infection? Do you have overgrowth? But what about all of those other foundational parts of the gut? How you're digesting, how you're absorbing? What are your good bacteria doing for you? All of that kind of stuff. Yeah. So hopefully, again, I've answered that well. It's your GI is going to maybe test one thing and the GI map is going to give you a hundred different markers versus the one.
(00:20:00):
That's what it is.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:20:03):
Yeah, I'm with you. And it's something I see at my business with urban AIP. We'll have people that will come in and you can see they found AIP, but they haven't worked for the practitioners, so they don't really know what else. And it's like, well, I'm eating this way, but
Emilie Davis (00:20:21):
Nothing's
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:20:22):
Changing. And that gut piece is such a crucial. I love that test too, because you can also see the prevention part of like, okay, well, if this is starting to get off balance,
Emilie Davis (00:20:32):
Then
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:20:33):
You can...
Emilie Davis (00:20:34):
Yes, it's exactly. And I do have people, sometimes I can catch them before it turns into an autoimmune disease. And so there's markers on the GI map for those that aren't super familiar, but different immune markers. And so if there's one that's specific to gluten, there's a basic just immune cell, but if that's really elevated, typically that's because of food. Not always, but typically. But as I'm talking and working with people, as I'm looking at these markers and they're telling me how they react to food and maybe they don't, like I say, sometimes I catch them beforehand and they don't have an autoimmune disease yet. I mean, I take it upon myself to have that conversation and explain if we didn't explore this, if we didn't know this, if we didn't take action and understand maybe what those foods are in conjunction with some of the other diseases you've been exposed to, that is how your immune system gets triggered and
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:21:48):
The
Emilie Davis (00:21:49):
Autoimmune disease clicks.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:21:50):
Right. Do you think that being a patient yourself has impacted how you practice? And if so, in what way?
Emilie Davis (00:21:57):
For sure. I think you understand being a patient or having at least some experience like I mentioned when we started was my story was that chronic illness. And I mean it's still right now I have an autoimmune disease and it's chronic illness. Never digestive. I've never had digestive issues. So it's like the other kind of gut connections for me. But having had that experience, I think I understand number one, the patience that's involved. It's not a quick process. You have to be patient. As anyone who's gone down this road, whether we're talking gut health, autoimmune disease, changing your diet, none of it is a quick fix. So patience and persistence and you are your own best advocate. I have that conversation with almost everyone I work with. And having been a patient, I understand the healthcare providers that did a good job of working with me and educating and helping me along the way.
(00:23:31):
And then healthcare providers that were not so great and we all know who they are. And so that's hard. That's hard to learn. Again, anyone who's been down this road, that's a big part of it is finding good healthcare providers that listen and believe what I just said, believe that what you're saying is true for you.
(00:24:07):
And so I try to be one of those people. I try to be someone that listens and I am always really, this is very top of mind conscientious when I have these conversations, especially with autoimmune disease patients, that you are your own best advocate and I trust your experience and what's happening in your body and please let me know how you're experiencing this because everyone's different, et cetera, et cetera. Trust from a healthcare provider I think is huge. So there's that. I understand that. And then I think I guess I would say the nuance. And that goes back to before I thought core AIP was the only way. And now I understand again, everyone's a little bit different. And if we can get away with avoiding eliminating less foods and still getting really good results, well, that's the better way to live. And so that's the conversation I have with patients too.
(00:25:15):
So that nuance of just everyone's different.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:25:23):
Let's talk about an AIP topic that I think too many people ignore and that I know you are passionate about and that's reintroduction. So you say reintroduction is often the most important and as we just mentioned, most overlooked part of the AIP process. So what do you typically see going wrong when people try to navigate reintroduction without support?
Emilie Davis (00:25:47):
Too fast. I think typically what I see is they jump in too fast. I mean, hopefully they're not hungry, but maybe they're hungry. If they're not working with a professional along the way with that elimination process, they could also be doing it maybe not "wrong," but I do meet a lot of people, whether it's AIP or some other type of elimination, they take it too far. So there's that too. They take it too far.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:26:28):
As far as how much they eat or how their
Emilie Davis (00:26:31):
Restrictions? Yeah, I see a couple of different things. If they're not working with a professional, I think it's really easy for people on putting themselves on an elimination diet, taking it too far, meaning they whittle themselves down to five foods. And anyone who's familiar with AIP knows, and this is almost always the conversations I'm having with people that want help is, well, there's all of these other foods, the nutrient-dense foods that people typically don't eat
(00:27:10):
And they are compliant. These are the foods you should be eating. It's not a psychologist, but it's probably human nature. We focus on the things we can't have. And so I do, I think people take it too far, the elimination part, and they whittle themselves down to five foods when really we could be accessing all of these other foods. So maybe they're hungry and they're bored and they're all of these things. And so then however many weeks maybe they give the elimination and then they're "ready for the reintroduction." What I typically see is they rush it too much, too fast, they don't go slow enough.
(00:28:02):
Again, if they're not working with a professional in the elimination phase, then they're missing out on all kinds of foods and nutrients. And so it's not really accurate, I guess, whether or not potentially this approach or eliminating this food or food group really has on their disease. Yeah. So I would say people typically rush it. And that is typically when a lot of people find me is in the reintroduction phase. And I don't know if that's similar with other AIP practitioners, but they typically find me in the reintroduction and need some help navigating it. And it's so done well. It's months, months and months And months. So yeah, I mean, I literally just had this conversation with a client two days ago. You cannot rush this process. Whatever it is you need to do, deep breaths. But yeah, patience, patience. And especially for people who I would say also really are noticing results with the elimination.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:29:33):
Yeah,
Emilie Davis (00:29:34):
You don't want to rush and you get confused or it's hard to know which food is really making a difference or if you're making other changes in the treatment healing process too besides food. So that is typically what I see.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:29:53):
So you mentioned earlier your client involving autoimmune encephalite, I can't even say it. Do I mean, I'm going to say it. Jane, I'm going to cut, start again. You mentioned a client earlier, a client case involving autoimmune encephalitis. And we discussed before we recorded the podcast a little bit about where reintroduction in that case required a much, much slower approach, more strategic approach. So without identifying all of the details, what made that case so instructive about how to interpret food reactions, I would say?
Emilie Davis (00:30:34):
Yeah, she really is a good example. So she just turned 18. I mean, she's young and she'd been dealing with really initially severe food reactions. I think her mom shared it was maybe when she was 12 or something. And then she started having seizures and this was just a little over a year ago. So they'd already been down the dietary intervention, whatever. I can't think of the word either, but that path that road, I guess. And so this was a very committed and dedicated kid and family and they'd already eliminated some things from her diet, like I say, because of this history. And then when the seizures started, they just really noticed a connection between food and the seizures. Eggs, for example. I don't know that it would surprise anyone. She was in the hospital. This was, I don't know, maybe four to six months into when the seizures were happening.
(00:31:55):
So still kind of early on figuring things out, but she was in the hospital, had had a really big seizure, and I think she had to stay overnight maybe. And they were recounting this story to me. I think it was before we started working together, just barely. And the hospital gave her an English muffin with an egg and maybe dairy, wheat and eggs. And it was all of her biggest triggers. And so yeah, I think she'd been eliminating eggs for a time, but she was hungry and it was what they were feeding her and hospitals aren't exactly the best places for nutritious foods
(00:32:40):
Or elimination diets, sadly. So she ate the egg and had just huge seizure and seizures for several days. And so anyway, her story was just really clear, like I say, foods that she eats and seizures that would go hand in hand. And so we had to go slower than, I'm trying to think about this, probably slower than anyone else I've worked with and looking for patterns over time and also trying to separate true food reactions from other variables. And as we know with AIP, we're not just talking food. This is lifestyle, this is stress, this is all kind gut. And so we did stool testing with her and she'd of course been doing other testing, but so trying to really figure out the true food reactions from other variables like stress or inflammation or gut or these other things. So it's not from a practitioner point of view, my takeaway is the nuance, I guess, again.
(00:34:02):
And it's AIP elimination and/or reintroduction. It's not just a checklist.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:34:12):
Right. Because we'll tell people it's important. G in order because it's the most nutrient-dense and less reactive, but obviously you wouldn't start with egg whites for her.
Emilie Davis (00:34:23):
No, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Those that know. So egg whites are in the stage one reintroduction. And so when we were reintroducing foods as we were looking at all of that, it was like a, no, no, we are not ready for eggs. Maybe not ever. I mean, I don't know. It's going to be years, honestly. Probably it's going to be years. But for her, yeah, it would not have been appropriate to introduce egg whites in the stage one. Yeah. It's interpretation, it's nuance, it's not just a checklist. Everyone is different. And I do think that's probably the biggest benefit to working with a professional. Yeah,
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:35:10):
I agree.
Emilie Davis (00:35:11):
And all of this, and any food reaction, any reaction in the body, I mean, we know this is the body talking to us. It's the body telling us like, "Oh, nope, not yet." And for all sorts of reasons, but it's just a way to gather information. And so that's really how I see the reintroduction process. But again, this particular client with autoimmune encephalitis was just a really good example.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:35:43):
Yeah.
(00:35:44):
Yeah. And I agree as a practitioner too, it's like your client is your body best and you'll know when you're connecting with the food and you'll get that reaction to listen and support. But having that professional guidance to be like... It's another thing that relieves the stress because there's so many components and it's like, okay - So many. You're traveling through your reintroduction journey, can't talk, and you're focusing on, okay, how am I feeling? Am I reacting to this? But you might be missing a piece that somebody that's on your team that's a professional train in that phase of reintroduction will be like,
Emilie Davis (00:36:24):
I'm
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:36:25):
Noticing something. So you don't have to pay attention to everything at once. It's another opportunity to just trust.
Emilie Davis (00:36:33):
Yeah. I mean, get a good team. Put together a good team. Find those people because we're out there. Put together a good team. Yeah.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:36:48):
You mentioned, you described wanting to help clients move from restriction and confusion into clarity and food freedom. I love that. It's a great way to frame it, I think. What does that actually -
Emilie Davis (00:37:00):
I'm not going to use those words, but those are
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:37:01):
Good
Emilie Davis (00:37:01):
Words.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:37:01):
Yeah. So what does that actually look like in your practice? What's a sign that a client has crossed that threshold?
Emilie Davis (00:37:12):
Yeah, into the food freedom.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:37:14):
Food freedom. Yeah.
Emilie Davis (00:37:15):
Yeah. Those listening probably are picking up because I've said a couple of times, if we can get away with less restriction, and I don't love that word, I don't know, I couldn't think of a different word, but if we can get away with, let's say it's gluten and dairy are a big trigger for someone but we can get away with a little bit of tomato and a little bit of peppers and some of these other things that are potentially inflammatory too. Learning that, I guess that's where the freedom comes in for me, that's how I think about it is helping someone understand what that balance is
(00:38:18):
And getting as much diversity and variety in the diet as possible. So they understand their body well enough to make choices without fear. As I say that, it brings up another kind of story or picture that I hear and I see a lot with the people I work with is a lot of times people are coming to me. I mentioned willing themselves down to eating five foods. A lot of times it's because they're afraid of eating other things because this is the person who's reacting to everything and so they don't know. I mean, I just walked some, this wasn't even AIP, but I just walked someone through two weeks ago that was in that place. He was eating literally three foods. He was reacting to everything.
(00:39:16):
I made very simple suggestions and recommendations, but a week later when we had our next appointment, he didn't have any flares in that time. Again, this is what working with a professional or the right professional because we know. And again, it's that partnership of the person knowing their body best and then also we know what things to look for and listen for. But yeah, I think hopefully I answered that well. I think where I'm happiest is when, like I say, somebody knows their body well enough that they're then making choices about food and there's no longer that fear factor. Yeah,
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:40:07):
That's
Emilie Davis (00:40:07):
What I would say.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:40:08):
Yeah. So one question we ask all of the certified AIP coaches that come in the podcast is what is your signature coaching advice?
Emilie Davis (00:40:20):
One signature piece of advice I guess is this is not meant to be forever. So my experience, if we've got good information, gut, diet, other things too, and we're all kind of looking at this, I think this is where holistic medicine really works for me. It works for everybody, but it makes sense to me. We're looking at the whole body. We should be making progress. I mean, an elimination diet, it's a tool. It's where some people need to be for a minute to reduce inflammation, gather information, create a personalized, it's not a plan, but understanding your body. That's where that all comes in, but it's not where people are meant to stay. If we've got these other good pieces of information, we should be healing in a way that we're able to bring foods back. And as we know, we're not talking about cheeseburgers per se or Doritos or whatever, but food, food is medicine.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:41:44):
Yeah. And that's some -
Emilie Davis (00:41:46):
Yeah, go ahead.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:41:47):
Yeah, no, that's something we bring up often on the podcast as well. And I think it's a message that a lot of people need to hear. I agree. Yeah,
Emilie Davis (00:41:54):
Food. But it's so funny how, and this is maybe another topic you're trying to wrap up and I'm bringing
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:42:02):
Up something new. No, you're
Emilie Davis (00:42:03):
Good. Food, food. It's not a built bar. That's not an energy drink. That's not most of the bread in this country. You know what I mean? That's not what we're talking about. That's not food. Food is medicine and it is good for our bodies, the plants that come from the earth. And I believe that to my core. I almost get emotional saying it and thinking about it because I do. I believe it with such a passion and conviction. And so it irks me to such a degree to hear noise about food of like, oh, you shouldn't eat legumes. Get out of here.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:43:01):
Get
Emilie Davis (00:43:02):
Out of here. They're one of the most nutritious plants on the planet. And there are some people. I mean, AIP and autoimmune disease, sure, legumes can be triggering, inflammatory, and there's things to know about them and ways to include them. But just some of these foods that we know they're medicine, they're therapeutic. So that's my signature advice. Yeah, maybe to wrap it all up is I am so passionate about teaching people how to eat food.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:43:48):
Yes.
Emilie Davis (00:43:49):
It's not counting calories or macronutrients or protein. Don't get me started. Food, food. We need to eat food.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:44:01):
Yeah. How do you help a client who's gotten significant relief from elimination trust that process to start reintroducing food?
Emilie Davis (00:44:16):
I think that's a great question because we brought up fear that a lot of people put themselves in that place and it's understandable. Typically, if someone has worked with me, it doesn't even have to be that long, maybe a month or something. Again, I think that's where the benefit of working with the right practitioner really comes in is the client I mentioned just within five or six days of our first appointment, he was on the floor, couldn't even sit upright. 25-year-old male by the way, healthy up until four months ago, couldn't even sit upright, reacting to everything, eating three foods, very simple dietary recommendations. Six days later, our next appointment, like a different person. So I mean, sometimes we can, I guess, get it wrong too, but typically we don't. I think early on that you build trust really quickly. He and other people, I think by the time we get to that reintroduction part, wherever we are in that journey, I'd given him that initial advice.
(00:45:41):
So the next week he was very open and trusting to what else I had to say and how else are we going to introduce foods. And as I'm thinking about the people that I work with and current clients, there's trust number one because what I'm telling them works and I'm listening.
(00:46:17):
Yeah, I think it's those two things. And so I don't really get a whole lot of, what's the right word? Hesitancy or fear or whatever when we're ready to move forward. Typically, I've built that trust. We have that trust. I'm listening, they're listening. I'm always changing things in my head spur of the moment of what I think is going to work for this person.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:46:49):
You also talked about something I like about symptoms being information rather than failure. Do you have an example you can give us that how does that shift looks like for a client way of thinking?
Emilie Davis (00:47:03):
Yeah, that is a good question. I mean, I can think honestly of that same patient with autoimmune encephalitis, for example, late legumes. So we're in the third kind of fourth stage of reintroduction and legumes are part of that. So she tried lentils was on her list of things to try. And one of the ways that they're good is yes, she had a reaction shortly after they introduced lentils, but because they'd had experience again with elimination and these symptoms. And I talked about with her really trying to understand food reactions apart from other changes in her treatment. And so they didn't jump to the conclusion that, no, I can't have lentils ever again or this food is bad. However people think about things. There was a change in her medication around the same time. And so given a day or two, they realized, oh, it was this shift in medication, not the lentils.
(00:48:26):
And so yeah, it's information, but it's not always maybe obvious food reaction. It isn't always. It's information. It's good to look at what else might be going on. And we put lentils back on the list. And in that case, sometimes when we haven't really talked about this, but if someone has a bump in their healing process and treatment, whatever, and again, all kinds of factors, you stop. You push pause and you don't move forward introducing more new foods. You wait until the body feels
(00:49:16):
Comfortable and stable again. I mean, that's super important too as someone that's just really sensitive or still really in the healing process. Symptoms, reactions, information. It's information.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:49:30):
Yeah. I love that reframing mindset of that. And maybe it is just a good culture out there of you bad, you failed, not good enough. And when we're looking at holistic approach, holistic is everything. And then it's this journey. It's we're reconnecting with our body and that's our body's telling us something. Having an autoimmune disease is crappy. Your body's telling you something. So it's like in the good and the "bad" using that information and reconnecting and being like, "Okay, we're communicating."
Emilie Davis (00:50:09):
We're communicating. Yep. And that's something I do. I try and
(00:50:14):
Remind and/or educate if a patient I'm working with hasn't had that kind of experience with a healthcare practitioner before because yeah, it is, it's information. And we've talked a little bit about, I guess as it pertains to the reintroduction process, I mean, yes, there's certain foods in a certain order, but then there's also, it's not so much AIP, but it can be. I think of this more with low FODMAP. If anyone's tried a low FODMAP, quantity matters. That's the big thing I think that really makes low FODMAP stand out a little bit from other elimination diets is someone can potentially have a quarter of an avocado, but maybe not more in one city. And so again, this is where I want people to have a quarter of an avocado if they can.
(00:51:15):
So all the different reasons why the lentils might not have worked, we figured out it was medication, but was it how much? That's another one that came up with this client. We were reintroducing nuts and seeds. And so almonds is one of the ones that she started with, but she kind of went overboard and she had almond flour and almond milk and almonds and all the things. And she came back and she's like, okay. Almonds are okay in moderation. And so again, learning that, is it the quantity? Is it the cooked versus raw? Is it right? I mean, there's so much nuance and a layperson, someone not working with a professional just doesn't know to think about those kinds of things. I
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:52:05):
Want to touch and talk about your practice, your process as a practitioner too. So can you please tell our listeners about your Gut Restore assessment? Who's it for? What does someone walk away with from that initial testing and that consultation?
Emilie Davis (00:52:23):
Yeah, the main program that I do now, my practice has really pivoted to where this is what I do, which makes all of my business coaches probably happy at this point. But yeah, Gut Restore is what I call it. And I mean, there is the assessment. I start with that functional stool test that we talked a little bit about and everybody starts there. So we get the test, get a sample right away because that really is what drives and guides my recommendations. And there might be some things that I hear early on from someone that I can get them started with. Anyone who's done a functional stool test knows there's a little bit of a wait. So sometimes there are things we can do while we wait, but I start everyone with that test and then I know better. I mean, even dietary recommendations, when I see things in the GI map, I have a much better idea of what might work for this person versus another.
(00:53:37):
So typically clients work with me anywhere from six to 12 months, depends, but I typically start everyone in this six-month program and then we see. But somewhere between six months and 12 months is my typical client. Few exceptions to that. I'm working with a couple of toddlers and toddlers typically don't need that long. They're young and they're resilient, and so four months is really all that they need. So a couple of exceptions, but typically six months is what it takes for that initial kind of intensive testing, changing diet, supplement protocol, et cetera. And that's what it looks like.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:54:30):
And your gut restore assessment and then you have the gut restore program.
Emilie Davis (00:54:35):
Yeah, I've done things a little bit differently actually in just a couple of weeks.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:54:39):
Oh,
Emilie Davis (00:54:39):
Got
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:54:39):
It.
Emilie Davis (00:54:40):
Yeah. I used to offer the testing separately and I don't anymore. I mean, what I found is some people would order the testing and then not want to do anything about it, and that's not the point for me. Also, there are absolutely, I mean, you can't just buy this stool test from anyone. It's under a doctor. I work with a doctor because this is medical information, so not to be taken lightly. For example, maybe that someone has a parasite. I mean, it could be any number of things, but this requires medical attention. So I want to work with people who want to do something about it. So I've structured it a little bit differently now. We still start with the test, it is part of a committed at least six-month program.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:55:39):
And then people will want to find you, connect with you. We're going to put this in the show notes too, but where would our listeners go to find you?
Emilie Davis (00:55:46):
Website is the best place, which is wholeessentialsnutrition.com. And for someone who's just curious, you'll see a quiz that you can take and gives you an idea of what some of your gut imbalance patterns might be. Really quick quiz and you can, like I said, just get an idea maybe of what's happening for you right now and what that looks like. And there's also for someone who knows they want to reach out and talk to me, there's a link to schedule a free 15-minute discovery call.
Marie-Noelle Marquis (00:56:28):
Wonderful. Yeah. And again, we'll put that in the show notes for you guys. Thank you so much again for your time, Emilie. Before we go, let's see, what's the one thing that you most want our listeners to walk away with from today's conversation?
Emilie Davis (00:56:47):
I want them to know if they're listening and have tried AIP, it's helped them, but they feel stuck.That doesn't mean you failed. Likely means you need some help and/or you need some other information. But I wouldn't want people to feel stuck and/or continue restricting because that just isn't the point. So AIP in connection with all the things we've talked about, gut health really is huge for me. But as we're talking of disease or someone's body really not feeling good, that's typically what brings people to AIP. Not always autoimmune disease, but just really not feeling good and wondering what's going on. Can diet help? Yes, just don't get stuck. Ask for help, I guess.
Jaime Hartman (00:58:00):
Okay. I finally got to listen to the whole entire interview and a few things really struck me. First, it was that reframe that Emilie offers where she says that symptoms are not failure, they're information. She specifically shared a story of a client consuming reintroducing lentils and at the same time making a medication change that just really struck me. It's such a clear and practical example of just not jumping to conclusions too fast. Second, her point about quantity mattering just as much as which foods you're reintroducing, that is so true and it is such an easy thing to overlook if you're doing the reintroduction part of AIP without any support. But honestly, the thing that I loved most was her energy around food as medicine. You can hear how much she really means it, and that's exactly the kind of perspective we want more of in this community.
(00:58:54):
So again, I'm really glad Marie-Noelle well got this one on tape while I was away. Once again, we're reminding you that AIP is more than a diet. AIP is a protocol with multiple branches and multiple ways to approach it. And through this podcast, AIP Certified Coaches aim to bring you resources so that you can feel confident about doing AIP on your own, but with the knowledge that you aren't doing AIP alone. Of course, we'll be back with another episode in two weeks and you can find the AIP Summit Podcast in your favorite podcast player. So be sure to follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. And of course, if you would like to leave us a rating and a review, it will help others find this podcast where we are committed to helping you use the power of the autoimmune protocol to elevate your wellness journey to new heights.
(00:59:51):
The AIP Summit Podcast is a Gutsy By Nature production. Content presented is for informational purposes only and is not in tended to be a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.
